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Talk:Red Marker
Huge inconsistencies? The game, as well as the comic books and movies can't seem to decide if the marker is a negative force that creates and spreads the necromorphs, or a positive force that restrains them. Dead space 1: The marker is discovered, colonist or miners or whatever start to go crazy/homicidal, allowing the necromorph infection to spread. The marker is moved, which accelerates the deteriorating condition. Then all of a sudden its a big deal that you have to move it back to its 'rightful place' to stop the infection, even though the marker was in its 'rightful place' when everything started, due to ITS influence. The tie-in media has the same problems. The black guy with the dead daughter touches the shard, he tries to destroy the planet and thus the marker fragments, which would HALT the infection permanently. Crazy white scientist spends too long with the shard, and it makes him unleash the infection. Does the marker have a split personality? Bipolar disorder? Good. I thought I was the only one who didn't get that. In Martyr, this is very contradictory too. The visions start occurring at the same time the Marker starts broadcasting, yet the usual message is that the Marker must be left alone, that Completion (Is that the term used? I don't have the book right here.) is wrong, and that humanity is in danger. However, later on Altman has a vision of his late girlfriend, Ada, who wants him to make her a baby. Along with Isaac's visions in the game asking him to make them whole, these visions are interpreted as the Marker's way of communication. So what exactly is the Marker's purpose/will? It spawns Necromorphs, yet also keeps them at bay. It drives people mad so that Necromorphs have bodies to infect, yet it tries to tell people to leave it be. I'm at loss here too... Vakama25 21:17, February 1, 2011 (UTC) I also was going to start a discussion about this because I'm watching dead space: aftermath right now and there was a line that directly said that "The signal from the shard (of the red marker) permeates the dead flesh of the subject" and then in the other movie (dead space:downfall) the main character near the end of the movie hides out near the marker because, as it says earlier in that movie, the marker produces a field that necromorphs can't enter. It also says the same thing in Dead space 1, except they say that it creates a "Dead space" (get it?) that the infection can't spread in. All 3 sources are talking about the same marker so what I'm thinking is that encoded in the marker (and broadcast into the minds of people around it) are the codes for the necromorph DNA/virus. But the marker does not want the infection to spread (for whatever reason) so it forces people to either heighten the field around the marker, like in dead space 1 (talking about the pedestal that Isaac has to put it on), or to stop people from discovering it's codes and using the codes to create the virus, usually by making them suicidal or murderous or crazy. This, of course, still doesn't explain why it did something like trick Nolan Stross into releasing the necromorph infection on the O'bannon and honestly, I think the creators of dead space should've put more thought into making it more consistent and more clear. -Dartyn I've played Dead Space 1&2 and have read and watched many of the tie-in medias. I love the series, but I think these inconsistencies are just plain, utter bad story writing on the part of the creators. Well, see what George Lucas did with the Star Wars prequels, shit like that happen all the time. So I just stop taking these backstories and fictional universes too seriously and enjoy playing the games instead. -GameOn The Hive Mind doesn't help in all this either because there may or may not have been a power struggle on Aegis VII between the two, although that would make the Red Marker there the most consistant in it's odd behaviour since it wants to keep control of the Necromorphs. The other Necromorphs on the other hand are just mindless pawns so it is unknown how much of an effect the Hive Mind had on the situation. 17:49, October 19, 2011 (UTC) I have two lines of thought on this subject. In Dead Space: Martyr, Altman believes that the hallucinations telling him and others to "stop convergence" is not a message from the marker itself but rather a defense mechanism in the human mind. Hinting at the marker's role in human evolution, somewhere deep inside the human brain many people feel an inherent need to foil the marker's designs or else have their entire species transformed beyond recognition. Hallucinations encouraging death and love for the Marker are the actual attempts by said alien artifact(s) to complete 'Convergence' by spreading the necromorph contagion and encouraging it's reproduction (probably to spread the marker's creators will further). Another possibility lies in the fact that all the games and other materials stress that the markers themselves are sentient beings. If this is the case it is possible the Red Marker decided to go against it's "programming" and defend it's actual creators (human beings) instead of transforming them for convergence. The Black Marker was created by an alien intelligence that sees humanity and other forms of life as so much raw material; it is amoral and indifferent. Meanwhile the Site 12 Marker built on Titan Station was also human made but unlike the Red Marker decided to fulfill it's ancestor's original agenda. That or maybe the activation of the Red Marker raised the attention of it's original creators who still exist somewhere in the universe and are now actively involved in humanities interest in the markers. This is strongly hinted at in a scientists journal in Dead Space 2. One final note on this point is the signal coming from the Red Marker. If I am right about that particular marker being benevolent towards humanity, why did it encourage the necromorph outbreak to occur or cause the more violent hallucinations? I believe that the markers themselves only have partial control over when and how to broadcast their "signals". Like human breathing, it was in the Red Marker's nature to spread the necromorph contagion and emit the signals that cause madness and could not stop it entirely without outside events or help. The only other possibilities are these - either that the Red Marker was confused, broken OR part of the hallucinations and necromorph activity were caused by the Hive Mind, which is likely something similar to what 'convergence' is meant to achieve. In conclusion I don't see it as bad storytelling per se but a mystery that has evolved with the franchise. In the first game the developers at Visceral studios could have just intended the markers to be "long lost, broken and cursed alien artifacts" but with the success of the first game it has evolved into something more. Or this mystery is what the writers intended all along. It is difficult to know for certain until we see the whole story revealed (hopefully in Dead Space 3). Just enjoy the ride! Oh and sorry for the essay but that's my two cents on the matter. :) Maphisto86 20:43, December 3, 2011 (UTC) The Marker destroyed? I actully don´t think the Marker got destroyed on Aegis 7, I mean think about it. What happend when the Marker got returned? All the gravity fetchers got deactivated. Now why would the Marker do that if it knew it would destroy it? It probably knew that it would survive and that if the big chunk of the planet got returned the Hive Mind would once again be sealed in, althought im open for alternatives :D. --Freddex 13:01, 28 March 2009 (UTC) Well, the Hive Mind is squashed for sure, if it wasn't already dead. As for the marker, why would it want to disengae the tethers anyways, if it could? the marker can not be destoryed it whoud just be buryed and the hive mind was underground... God like65 23:37, June 26, 2010 (UTC) I'm sure the Red Marker is still alive, unscaved sitting on top of a bunch of rubble. My theory in storyline was that the Red Marker was good but he Black Marker is evil. sigh, if only I could explain to you all. It was partly destroyed - The Aftermath Trailer says "Artifact Fragment Recovered", meaning that it was destroyed but a peice of it survived.Necromorph-X 08:42, September 2, 2010 (UTC) If Dead Space: Salvage comic is canon then the marker has been AT LEAST partially destroyed as a band of illegal miners find the Ishimura with it's hull shot full of fragments. Tehzim 23:29, January 16, 2011 (UTC) It WAS probably destroyed when Aegis VII fragment fell down on planet. Sorry for any mistakes, I don't use English every day. Kacperora (talk) 17:48, August 23, 2013 (UTC) The marker alive? Major blackout during planet crack procedure. The hallucinations only prior to the discovery of the marker. Hallucinations based on the marker actually wanting itself to return back to Aegis. Is the marker actually alive?It may just be an artificial intelligence. Able to think itself. I don't think it's a coincidence both in the Aegis colony and the Ishimura. They all seemed to be planned by the marker. (Magistret) It could also be theorized that the Hive Mind itself was driving the colonists insane through its use of telepathy, and that the Red Marker prevented this until it was weakened by its removal from its pedestal. Was it real? Was she real? That is the question we ask ourselves about Nicole, a hallucination from the Red Marker to coax Isaac into bringing it back to Aegis VII. But have we bothered to wonder if the MARKER is real? Think about it. It dosen't have it's repelling effect, it was kept in a badly kept cargo hold with boxs of junk, and the marker, when on the pedestal, activated, and destroyed the gravity teathers holding the chunk of earth. This would've killed it, I guess if it was alive. But, what if the Marker made Isaac hurry to the planet, with an illusion, and then it knew Isaac would've killed the Hive Mind anyway, either when he put the 'marker' on its pedestal and sent the chunk of rock free, or he killed the Hive Mind outright. Comment if you will. Tazio1 02:54, June 27, 2010 (UTC) !CONFUSION ALERT! BEEP BEEP BEEEP (Stop, you're confusing me)My plasma cutter's bigger than yours! 20:24, July 31, 2010 (UTC) .....................................LOLWUT? so much mind games. (CrackShot 20:27, July 31, 2010 (UTC)) It was Real. I think you shall find. It has been seen my Hundreds of people, and is the cause for Hallucinations. I think that you'll find that if the Marker weren't real, the Necromorphs and Hive Mind would not be sealed inside the plnet an would've spread across the Universe in the time they were locked in. plus, hundreds of peple saw the Marker before they had suffered the dimentia. Sam Cadwell saw it with a large group of friends, and it was responsible for making him go crazy. Terrance Kyne saw it before he suffered Dimentia, as did Alyssa Vincent, Jen Barrow and to members of her team, the Necromorphs themselves, Isaac Clarke ect. It has to be real, otherwise nobody would be crazy... Necromorph-X 08:47, September 2, 2010 (UTC) Not what I was quite getting at. I don't debate that there is a Marker on Aegis VII, I'm refering to if the Marker that Isaac took was real or not. It's just the various pieces of information we've been given that makes me think the red rock Isaac lugs around isn't real. They kept a 'Holy artifact' stored with a bunch of useless looking boxs. And it didn't repel Necro's. (Although that could be gameplay reasons.) I know there's a Marker, but was Isaac moving a Marker? Very likely, as Kendra Daniels and Terrance Kyne saw it also, Terrance loaded it on his Shuttle, and Kendra attempted to Steal the Marker. Also, it seemed to kill all the Necromorphs nearby when replaced on it's pedestal, and the Marker was making Nicole Brennan as a Hallucination to get Isaac to return it to it's pedestal, therefore "Make us Whole", and if the Marker Isaac pulled was a Hallucination, the Nicole Hallucination would surely alert Isaac as to this and get him to carry the real Marker. Necromorph-X 09:29, September 3, 2010 (UTC) I can see where you're coming from Tazio, and most people don't seem to understand your theory (no offence intended), and I myself do understand it, but, really, wouldn't it have been easier for the people that created it to actually make the Marker as opposed to making a device that not only drives people to believing there is a Red Marker but also has been doing this for around two hundred years? Think for a second - the Government created the Red Marker from the Black Marker, so they don't have a reason not to make the Red Marker. Why would they just make something that has the effect of making people think they can see the Red Marker, no doubt spending billions of dollars (credits?) to study Human Psychology, design a device to exploit it, place it on Aegis Seven for no readily explained reason, create a virus that is inteligent enough to make what are essentially Zombies with knives for hands, and place that also on Aegis Seven, when they could have simply reverse engineered the Black Marker - which they were smart enough to do in the first place - with the exact same effects? It's silly (again, no offence intended). Also, the Red Marker was created by not only by the Government but also by a Unitoligist splinter cell within the Government. So, either they were under the effects of what they were creating themselves despite having evidence that they were under its effects and didn't stop it, or there was already a Marker nearby that made them think that there was a Red Marker and that the Unitoligists were right all along and shouldn't stop anyone from making a Red Marker and abusing the Unitoligist's beliefs - either way, both go against logic, as they require a large amount of assumptions and weak conclusions, going against Occam's Razor, one of the most basic Logical tools. So, in answer to your question, yes, yes it was real. Captain tweed 01:43, January 22, 2011 (UTC) Made by man Please can some one change the first phrase "The Marker? This "divine relic"? Made by man." because i think is a little spoiler(ok very spoiler) can some one change to something else? :how about kyne's little rant "They think the Marker is Divine!" Mr White 01:53, August 4, 2010 (UTC) It's not really a bother, and doesn't really spoil it. The game doesn't exactly revolve around the Marker, also the page will Include Spoilers and the Quote is very good as it describes the Marker in a rather good simple sentance, so I believe it should stay the same... Necromorph-X 09:31, September 3, 2010 (UTC) Oh, please don't. Seriously, if people Visit the pages they should know that they'll be Spoilers. Plus it sums it up in a few simple words... ~ Xencromorpa, 00:45, January 17, 2011 (UTC) Bismuth Huh, so apparently bismuth was the substituted element which caused the Marker to become red; if this is the case, then this suggests the Marker uses a macro-carbon skeleton base given that (unless they've created some new, strange compound) the only bismuth compound that yields a red similar to that of the Marker is tris-cyclopentadienylbismuth (Bi(C5H5)3). What is important to understand is that the use of hydrocarbons in something like the Marker seems a strange choice, given they are many other compounds which are more structurally sound- indeed, the use of hydrocarbons may imply that the Marker, or part of it, is a living organism, as such compounds would be primarily useful in a biological support role. Granted, the exact mechanism of how it functions, or even how synapses occurs, would be far different then anything previously seen, but it would explain the source of the Marker's apparent "consciousness". Thoughts? --Haegemonia(talk) 15:40, August 11, 2010 (UTC) The red of the Marker need not be Bi(C5H5)3: a number of other bismuth mixtures would give the apparent deepness of red. Remember, this need not be a simple compound. A number of bismuth compounds give different shades of red, which could be made deeper by dirt, by obscuring it, by the light, or simply by adding differing amounts of other metals. I think you are looking a bit too far into it, all I'm saying; it could merely be that was the color red they wanted to use, and damn chemistry to hell! Ururu117 00:10, October 11, 2010 (UTC) :All the other crystalline compounds you are referring to (such as Bi2O5 and BiOI) are all extremely unstable and would have decayed into more stable compounds within a few years (far short of the hundred-plus years the Red Marker has lasted); also, there is no known solid complex compound (in regards to the baseline molecule) which, by just adding in Bismuth, becomes red. Additionally, Bi(C5H5)3 is really not a "simple" compound, as it tends to form incredibly complex chains which (in theory) can be infinitely long, leading to this compound being described (oft in solution) as (BiC5H5)∞. :Granted, I agree with your statement that I'm probably over-thinking things but, really, I do that with everything T.T --Haegemonia(talk) 00:52, October 11, 2010 (UTC) : :I meant "simple" more as "simply" a compound, as opposed to a complex mixture which cannot be described by a short chemical equation. Furthermore, Bismuth oxides, as you indicate, are pinkish to red. The fact they are unstable is irrelevant; they constantly are generated via contact with oxygen, which would be in sufficient quantities to give the red "tint" the Red Marker has, especially if overlayed onto an underlying black substrate (explaining the deeper tone). For this purpose, I would predict Bi2O5. : :As for why Bismuth as opposed to Mercury (being notable for its redness), Bismuth forms spiral staircase structures which would appear to the layman to be similar to a DNA spiral, even though they are fundamentally different and distinct. It is also a semiconductor, fitting with the alien artifact motif, and therefore it is much more likely that it simply had too many interesting properties to deny its use simply because it was not the right shade of red. : :I just think you've begun to over-speculate; you should stop at indicating the 2 or 3 relevant chemical markups to avoid staggering out past the end of the pier, if you catch my drift ^~ : :Bi2O5 seems to fit nicely, by the way. Ururu117 01:05, October 11, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm curious as to what you mean by overspeculation; if you are referring to my speculation about the carbon chains indicating a carbon-based lifeform, I agree, that is speculation, but what I've stated in regards to the compounds of Bismuth is factual. Now, as for Bi2O5, it doesn't really fit, as it is simply far too unstable for what we're talking about (and this is actually quite important, since all those compounds, when in a solid mixture, are shown to decay in such a way that yields anywhere from a greenish-pink to gray mixture after a relatively short while). Also, the staircase pattern you describe is more a trait of bismuth compounds which exist as a powder and exhibit minimal resemblance to the qualities displayed by the Red Marker, even when dispersed in another medium. ::Also, I do, in fact, agree that the compound exists in a mixture rather then a pure form but, once again, all other compounds of bismuth would tend to disperse relatively evenly in a mixture, only Bi(C5H5) actually "clumps" together like we see in the Marker. This leads me to the point that my arrival to the conclusion it was Bi(C5H5) was not simply based on colour, but the fact it exhibits many of the same physical properties in mixture as the Marker does. Granted, there is no guarantee that I'm right, it's quite possible that the writers didn't even consider the exact chemistry of all this, but from my experience working with such compounds Bi(C5H5) fits the bill nicely. --Haegemonia(talk) 01:20, October 11, 2010 (UTC) :: ::That simply isn't true. Bi2O5 fits perfectly, as it is generated constantly by oxygen to form a passive oxidization shell that prevents the Bismuth from completely oxidizing. The instability is irrelevant; it would be constantly generated in atmo. We never see the Red Marker outside of atmo for long enough periods of time to see if it's red tint would diminish. More than that, in popular culture, the prevalance of thinking Bismuth is reddish is due to this very oxidization layer formed on purified Bismuth, which would be far more obvious than a more polymerizable compound such as Bi(C5H5). It simply makes more sense looking at this from a casual, as opposed to chemical perspective: the reddish tint of Bismuth is made from oxidization layers. More over, having gone over a RGB lookup on photographs of both chemicals as well as in game footage from the Red Marker (yes, I can be this obsessive), the RGB values are far closer to the reddish tint of Bi2O5 on a black substrate than to Bi(C5H5), indicating it was an oxide used for the coloring of the Marker (though admittedly both are relatively close). :: ::Again, looking from a casual perspective as opposed to our obvious chemical backgrounds, it would be easier to make the references I was indicating above to spiral shape. I think we have to invoke "rule of cool" here: red is an awesome color, Bismuth relatively rare and interesting, and the popular culture image of certain elements are what invoked this, not chemical engineering. Ururu117 01:34, October 11, 2010 (UTC) :::Ah, I finally see where the issue arose: I was considering the fact that, for most of the time the Marker has been around, it has not been in atmosphere (the planet's atmosphere was due to very recent terraforming). I was wondering where you thought the sufficient oxygen was coming from... Alright, I get your point, albeit I don't believe the concentrations of oxygen were high enough and/or the Marker had been in an atmosphere long enough for it to regain it's "redness", but I see where you are coming from. I suppose the only way to be certain would be to know the exact O2 concentrations of Aegis VII and how long the atmosphere had been in place, as that would would tell us if Bi2O5 would work (admittedly, its red is more similar to the Marker). Man, if only we could shine a really bight light on the Marker, as if it was Bi(C5H5) it would display anomalous luminescence as that particular compound is highly sensitive to photon-induced vibration, whereas Bi2O5 would yield negligible luminescence. Ah well, still, good discussion- people normally don't indulge my nerdiness :) --Haegemonia(talk) 01:47, October 11, 2010 (UTC) ::: :::Planet crack is said to take a considerable amount of time: 5-7 years completely, with the first 2-3 being colonization and research. That's where I figured the O2 came from, and would also explain why they were so excited instead of wary (the Marker could have been closer to black than red when they first found it, and steadily turned more red). I agree, luminescence and the presence of phonons due to photon-induced vibration would confirm it as Bi(C5H5), which of course means we need to begin planning our trip to Aegis 7! ::: :::This was fun ^^ Ururu117 02:17, October 11, 2010 (UTC) ::: :::On that note of illuminating the Marker, could we shine the light of the Plasma Cutter onto the Marker's sprite? I haven't done it, but maybe this scientific test could confirm a few things. On another note, could we also shoot the Marker, and see what happens? ::: :::Forgive me my dear Watson, but I do believe Doyle would like to interject: I doubt that the chemical make up was taken into account by the model designer. I will be sure to try it, in the name of verification, on my third playthrough however, you have my word. Ururu117 03:08, October 11, 2010 (UTC) More than one red marker? am i the only one who noticed that the producers indicated the existence of multiple red markers: Red Markers are red because bismuth was used to replace certain elements in the duplication of the Black Marker. Maldicion666 For some reason I always imagine that the third Marker would be a Green/ White Marker, and would be some sort of thing to create even more new Necromorphs... but the idea of more Markers is speculation. Until a game appears with a third Marker, we cannot confirm this. Necromorph-X 09:33, September 3, 2010 (UTC) Red Marker, Black Marker, Green and Yellow, Orange Blue and White... ~ Xencromorpa 00:47, January 17, 2011 (UTC) I don't know if there are more than 1 RED marker, but according to Dead Space: Catalyst, there are at least three markers in existence when the Red Marker on Aegis VII was initially created. I never noticed if the marker on Aspera was described as Red or not, but there's a third marker on Kreemar that is never actually described. In addition, it appears that all three of these markers could "communicate", in that they sent out energy waves that seemed to triangulate to Istavan Sato. How or why is still unclear, other than his proximity to the Aspera Marker appeared to initialize the first set of outbreaks that eventually caused the Aegis VII marker to be "lost" INCyr (talk) 17:38, October 18, 2012 (UTC) Does this belong to trivia?.. " * There is is a possibility that the reason why the Red Marker makes people insane and causes them to kill themselves and others, is perhaps because of the fact that the Red Marker was created from a piece of the Black Marker. Perhaps that piece of the Black Maker holds some information on the true purpose of the Marker, immortality (see Martyr). The information of that piece of the Black Marker is then found on the Red Marker, if this could be incomplete information, or such, then the human brain would not be able to process it and would go crazy." I mean trivia are facts, this is not fact, this is speculation. Should I remove it? MitchK 18:46, August 19, 2010 (UTC) EDIT: since no one had replied I took the liberty and removed it along with an other confusing bit. Original Purpose? Does anyone have any idea what the original purpose of the Marker was? Sereiously? If it was indeed made by Unitologists within the Government, then they would have needed to have knowledge of the Black Marker in order to reverse engineer it to create the Red Marker - so why the Hell didn't they tell anyone? The core belief of Unitology is that Altman was killed after discovering the Black Marker, turning him into a Martyr (hence the title of the new book). So, in essence, they have discovered their hypothetical "God" figure - something that, if discovered today, would cause untold amounts of all kinds of things (denial, Holy Wars to argue Its own beliefs, riots, etc.) - so friggin' tell someone! What, did no one want to listen? "Oh, hey Chad, did you file that report like I asked you to?" "No, dude, this is amzing, I just discovered the Black Marker! Altman was right all along!" "Damn it Chad, I told you to lay off those pills!". I mean, what the Hell? Well... I geuss they do have their reasons to keep their discovery secret... *subtly points to billions of credits paid to increase in rank in Unitology and thinks of a Scientology joke I'm too afraid to say in case I offend someone and get banned* ...Come to think of it, where does money come into it? They don't have a Messiah that would be more kind to them if they were a higher rank, a place to go that would be more luxurious after they die or anything that we know of, so the only benefit that we're aware of is the (admittedly cool) Tank RIG, but who in their right mind would pay billions and billions of credits (as was the tragic case of Octavia Clarke) just for a pretty cool looking RIG which you may not even use if you don't have a job as exciting as fighting Space Zombies and fixing Communications arrays that apparently are more than capable of blasting a person to bits if not properly armored. Oh yeah, I can really see someone coming to the Office Christmas Party looking like a robotic skeleton. "Oh, Chad, have you met Madison? She's new here, she'll be put in your block." *Chad goes to shake Madison's hand and accidentally tears her hand off with his Kinesis* "Oh crap, don't worry, I keep twenty bottles of First Aid Gel with me just in case!" "What the Hell, Chad!? How the Hell do you keep twenty bottles of that stuff with you!? That thing doesn't even have pockets!" Original Purpose? Does anyone have any idea what the original purpose of the Marker was? Sereiously? If it was indeed made by Unitologists within the Government, then they would have needed to have knowledge of the Black Marker in order to reverse engineer it to create the Red Marker - so why the Hell didn't they tell anyone? The core belief of Unitology is that Altman was killed after discovering the Black Marker, turning him into a Martyr (hence the title of the new book). So, in essence, they have discovered their hypothetical "God" figure - something that, if discovered today, would cause untold amounts of all kinds of things (denial, Holy Wars to argue Its own beliefs, riots, etc.) - so friggin' tell someone! What, did no one want to listen? "Oh, hey Chad, did you file that report like I asked you to?" "No, dude, this is amzing, I just discovered the Black Marker! Altman was right all along!" "Damn it Chad, I told you to lay off those pills!". I mean, what the Hell? Well... I geuss they do have their reasons to keep their discovery secret... *subtly points to billions of credits paid to increase in rank in Unitology and thinks of a Scientology joke I'm too afraid to say in case I offend someone and get banned* ...Come to think of it, where does money come into it? They don't have a Messiah that would be more kind to them if they were a higher rank, a place to go that would be more luxurious after they die or anything that we know of, so the only benefit that we're aware of is the (admittedly cool) Tank RIG, but who in their right mind would pay billions and billions of credits (as was the tragic case of Octavia Clarke) just for a pretty cool looking RIG which you may not even use if you don't have a job as exciting as fighting Space Zombies and fixing Communications arrays that apparently are more than capable of blasting a person to bits if not properly armored. Oh yeah, I can really see someone coming to the Office Christmas Party looking like a robotic skeleton. "Oh, Chad, have you met Madison? She's new here, she'll be put in your block." *Chad goes to shake Madison's hand and accidentally tears her hand off with his Kinesis* "Oh crap, don't worry, I keep twenty bottles of First Aid Gel with me just in case!" "What the Hell, Chad!? How the Hell do you keep twenty bottles of that stuff with you!? That thing doesn't even have pockets!" SOOOOOOOOOOO, rant on plot holes involving Unitology over. Anyway, title says it all: "What was the original purpose of the Red Marker?" Captain tweed 02:14, January 22, 2011 (UTC) : Let's look at this another way - that the Unitologists had no idea what the Marker was for, themselves. After all, one can imitate a clock, create a clock, to utmost perfection, but if one does not know the meaning of time, what's the point? : Quite a few answers are in that nifty little book - namely that Unitoligy was born by the government to begin with, hence the close ties, and that it was definitly spawned after dsicovery of the original marker. Why'd they cover it up? I wouldn't know. Chances are, they were' desperate to know what it was. : Why do they make their members pay extravagant fees to advance ranks in a church? This one is easy - one can easily speculate that the government is using the Church as a side revenue stream, or the like, and is gradually milking its members in a way that taxing cannot. : The benefits of it? Well, titles, and increased entrance into the Church itself - I remember something about Inner Circles and the like. Probably the same as our very own Scientology - lots of stuff, in the end meaningless. : So back to the original question - the point of the Red Marker was simply a grasp, at straws, to comprehend alien life. Failed, big-time. It's happenned before, in our own hisotry, that we attempt to comprehend the unknown by imitating it. Rarely works. As for the Black Marker? Well, feel free to speculate. I wouldn't know. : Lintire 07:57, January 22, 2011 (UTC) : : Indeed - so many unanswered questions. But, if they were studying the Black Marker to make the Red Marker for as long as they were, you'd think that, when the research station that they were recreating the Life-Form on suddenly went dark, they'd call down a goddamned Exterminatus style shelling of Nukes on it rather than just saying "Hey, you can't go there." I mean, why would you set up a barrier in an attempt to quarantine it rather than using the Nukes that ALL THE GUARDS OF THE BARRIER HAVE, or, at the very least, send in some of the supposed "Special Ops" teams to extract the Marker rather than spending loads of credits on keeping a constant barrier which, seeing as how the Ishimura got through without anyone noticing that they were in prohibited space i.e not getting shot at like they were supposed to be, isn't even all that useful. So why the Hell didn't anyone just shoot 'em all on sight? : 'Cause the Military need to get their incompetent asses kicked in every Survival-Horror game ever, that's why. No exceptions. Hell, even the Sprawl Security Force get beaten hard, despite having advanced suits AND Pulse Rifles that fire Grenades, as well as Gabe Weller, who not only is a Veteran Necro Hunter and Resource War Vet (which I think of as being simillar to being a Vietnam Vet, only not missing a leg from those damned mines and having Lasers, which makes anybody who survives it 10X more awesome), but is also working with Lexine, who's ALSO a Necromorph Hunter! There's little to no reason why the Sprawl Security Force get beaten so hard and so fast. So, yeah, Humanity is pretty screwed unless the EarthGov decides to listen to the "Schizophrenic" Necromorph Hunters and stop trying to shoot them down for no good reason with twenty pounds of Space Helicopter Explodey Mixture.Captain tweed 20:19, January 26, 2011 (UTC) : I think it just needs to reproduce another Marker Outerhaven 20:23, January 26, 2011 (UTC) Kendra's Brother It is stated that it is unknown if Kendra's brother really is dead or simply not positioned on the ship. I think it is safe to say that he is dead, as hallucinations caused by the Markers always involve deceased loved ones. This is seen in Dead Space: Martyr, as when Michael Altman encounters a vision of Ada, his girlfriend, he immediately concludes that she is dead. Vakama25 06:08, January 28, 2011 (UTC) Vakama25 Marker Function Just a minor point on the "marker inconcistencies." It might have been mentioned before, but the difference in the "make us whole" hallucinations and the madness inducing hallucinations that cause the necromorph mutation are probably based on the subject's intellegence. There is a log in DS2 that states that when the algoithms produced by the marker are imprinted on the brain, the intelligent hear them constantly and coherantly, almost like music, while the unintelligent only hear maddening, unceasing noise. These are most likely the roots of each of the conditions caused by the marker. WalkingWormFood Thats one pretty Big Marker Signal... Shockingly, in Dead Space 2 it is revealed that Necromorphs have to stay within the vicinity of a Marker Signal to stay alive. Despite this, consider how big the signal from this Marker would have to be to hit the entire Colony and Ishimura... Necromorph-X (talk) (blog) 15:54, February 14, 2011 (UTC)﻿ Imagine the size of the signal that the Site 12 Marker/Golden Marker made....User:ZombieKilla726 04:39, March 11, 2011 (UTC) There was a recording of a woman that was cleaning the Ishimura discussing that when the marker was destroyed all the necromorphs turned into a swampy-like crap on the floor, kind of like the Corruption, but dead. She also said, if I remember correctly that the human DNA composed crap began to conform again when a piece of the marker was brought around it. I think fragments of the marker were still on the ship when they brought it in, I would hate to clean the crap up and encounter the creatures on it before they retrieved the marker fragments. I'm guessing that after the original Red Marker was destroyed, that the necromorphs turned into crap. Then when they created the Gold Marker or Isaac's marker, like an epidemic, the corruption started and they swarmed from there.. (I don't have an account so I'll make up a name) JackBerflaff Please read this. There seems to be a bit of a contradiction in that almost everyone else it presumably contacted went insane and almost all of them surrendered to the Necromorphs or lost the will to live instead, although it is possible that this is unintentional and the Marker's attempt to create the Make us Whole Again hallucination causes other delusions. This could be why the Red Marker was considered unstable. Another explanation to these contrasting hallucinations is that perhaps the Hive Mind was also able to cause some of its own, creating different hallucinations that prompted miners to kill themselves and others, probably as a way to "prepare" corpses for the infection to take over. '' Correct me if I am wrong, but if I recall correctly, wasn't it stated somewhere in some log in Dead Space 2, that the severity of the hallucinations and the insanity induced by the Marker depends on the individual? Something having to do with the person's "intelligence" or something like that. Some people managing to "decipher" the signals thus becoming potential creators, while the rest receive the signal as just "noise", driving them completely crazy. I'm quite sure that it was something along these lines, but please, I need someone to cite the log I'm talking about, and shed some more light on my blurry recollection of the game's events :D --[[User:Noemon|Noemon]][[User talk:Noemon| *'talk'*'']] 09:04, July 11, 2011 (UTC) Here is a transcript of the log, and I'll also put a link to a video if you wanna hear it: "Bonnie Worthington, Research log 16-671: It's the same signal. Dementia and codes and blueprints are all caused by the same signal from the Marker. It's the people that are different. Smart people "see" codes and blueprints, but to everyone else, it's just noise. Noise that drives you mad." Just skip ahead to 3:02 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t2eDQfZa-w&NR=1&feature=fvwp. AFriendlyNecromorph 00:24, July 21, 2011 (UTC) :Oh, thank you, that was more help than I expected! Much appreciated! --[[User:Noemon|''Noemon]][[User talk:Noemon| *'talk'*'']] 10:46, July 21, 2011 (UTC) Good catch. Supertologist (talk) 00:49, July 21, 2011 (UTC) You're welcome Noemon. I figured I owed you one for moving the Tripod page. :) Also if you wouldn't mind, I wrote something in the Creeper's Talk Page if you'd like to check that out. I just wanna know if anyone else wants the page to be moved. AFriendlyNecromorph 02:03, July 22, 2011 (UTC) I believe I have a theory or two After playing both games and noticing the massive differences between the two 'Markers', I have come to a conclusion. There is one significant difference that stands out for me which will hopefully become apparent in the following; The Red Marker was built from research date collected by Michael Altman and a piece of the Black Marker. The Site 12 Marker was created by pure codes from the Red Marker. I hypothisise that this is a major difference and would explain the contrasting 'personalities' between the Markers. The Red Marker is not a true Marker, just a prototype if you will, not the finished product and so cannot fulfill it's purpose of Convergence. The Site 12 Marker, while being built from Red Marker codes, still has the coding of the Marker's and so can fulfill it's duty properly, without human intervention. Another interesting thing to note is that while the Red Marker repels Necromorphs, the new Marker attracts them for it's own purpose. I think that the source of the infection, as it came from a 'lab accident' the first time and the Hive Mind the second time, has something to do with this. The Marker's as we have seen, are able to create Necromorphs but so are humans. Maybe, because the Necros weren't the Red Marker's, they were of no use to it and so they wanted to destroy them by taking away their leader while the Site 12 Marker, having reanimated corpses itself, has no Hive Mind to contest with and so can fulfill Convergence with it's own Necromorphs, something the Red Marker couldn't do. Just a thought for you all to digest. EarthGov 21:49, August 2, 2011 (UTC) Chanting in Dead Space I am sure some of you have already noticed this years ago but I didn't figure it out until relatively recently. When you put Isaac close to the Red Marker you can hear this faint chanting. The closer you are to the marker, the louder it is. The farther away you are and it fades into the background. Here's a video in case you don't know what I am talking about - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iIn3k_OJAE . So what is it saying over and over again? Is it Latin? Or any actual language? Does it have a deeper meaning in the storyline? Or is it just a sound Visceral put in to make the marker more ominous? Maphisto86 20:48, December 3, 2011 (UTC) How to fit the red marker and yellow marker together Hey all, here's my theory about how to tie the red marker and yellow markers function together - it's messy as my grammar isn't great but after giving both markers characteristics much thought this was my way of rationalising both markers into a consistent frame of reference... Key points: · Markers have the goal of initiating a convergence event (Developer comment) · Convergence event could form a hive mind (speculation) · A hive mind existed on Aegis Vii · The marker on Aegis Vii was created by military scientists based upon their understanding of the black marker · The red marker isn’t perfect – bismuth used instead of unknown materials So here’s the theory and it requires a bit of bending to fit in with continuity. When the Red Marker on Aegis Vii was created it began affecting the creators much in the same way that the yellow marker affected Isaac and Stross – telling them to make it whole, using apparitions of loved ones, causing insanity/dementia. At some point the fully constructed red marker is activated causing a necromorph outbreak. Now, somewhere in the game it mentions that one of the scientists created a pedestal based upon a dream he had – it might have been an apparition hallucination, or more likely to fit in with continuity he was one of the few humans who has the higher brain function or genetic disposition to subconsciously understand what the markers real goal is – hence this scientist creates the pedestal which acts as an inhibitor for the red markers signal thus halting the outbreak. However, suppose that before he accomplished the completion of the pedestal one of the “makers” aka the scientists that reverse engineered this marker did end up being made whole with it – convergence would occur. If convergence does mean the creation of a hive mind then this would explain the presence of the hive mind on Aegis Vii. Now for my part of the theory – we see that when Isaac joins with Nicole he realises the Markers deceit and deception and battles it on a psyco-kinetic plain of existence. Suppose this happened during the convergence event that may have happened with the red marker but the scientist didn’t win. Although convergence may have occurred what if the scientists mind was also absorbed by the marker – what if his realisation of the markers true nature creates a split personality within the red marker, in effect his mind in a last ditch attempt at stopping this menace, merges with it hence forming a personality that wants the necromorphs stopped – suppose that this scientists mind contained within the red marker then reached out to the other scientist and planted the idea of creating the pedestal via apparitions of loved one(s). The creation of the pedestal renders the red marker inactive. Now how Isaac fits into all this – since he isn’t a “maker” of the red marker but is possibly a human with the necessary higher brain function he is able to see the apparition of his dead girlfriend Nicole. This Nicole however, is manifested by the part of the red marker which belonged to the converged scientist thereby confusing the markers instruction “make us whole” which would normally initiate convergence with the need to return the marker to the pedestal – in effect the marker is sending very mixed signals! In the aftermath of the whole first game saga, Isaac’s interaction with the marker will leave imprinted in his mind the split identity of the red marker – but vitally also, the information needed to create a marker. This overload of information causes Isaac’s partial insanity and dementia and explains the evil Nicole apparition seen at the end of the game – it’s a fragment of the evil side of the marker, the true nature of the marker that lives on in his mind. It is never really explained how the Necromorphs proliferate on titan but one can assume a controlled activation of the yellow marker may have occurred. Isaac’s mind was used to construct the yellow marker – hence he now is a “maker” and is needed for a convergence event. The yellow marker “knows” this and taps into his mind creating the image of Nicole in a similar but more twisted fashion than he was visited by during his manipulation by the split/distorted red marker. Of course we now know that this was used as a deception in an attempt to initiate convergence by bringing Isaac to the marker to die. Just floating this idea out there. 23:59, August 3, 2012 (UTC) Marker Locations & evidence for further markers SPOILERS FOR DEAD SPACE 3 & BOOKS I was playing through Dead Space 3, and came across a text log in the Disposal Services optional mission (Chapter 14) that states the following: "The Red Markers, sequestered safely away on distant star systems such as Aegis VII, Aspera and Proxmia Centauri, among others..." First off, this lead to a change on the Red Marker page to swap the locations of Kreemar and Aspera/Proxima Centauri and Gilese 581. Secondly, the wording brings up questions about whether the Kreemar/Aspera & Proxima Centauri/Gilese 581 markers are even the same pair, or there are actually more markers out there than the three we thought there were. INCyr (talk) 20:13, February 16, 2013 (UTC) Speculation Section Problems I noticed someone wrote a detailed and rather interesting speculation section. While I can agree with some of their points, I find it is a little inappropriate for a wiki article. It is part of a bigger problem I find with this wiki in that is does not stick with the facts shown. Sure there are some plot holes throughout the Dead Space series but the same can be said for other fictional franchises covered in a more accurate way on other wikis dedicated to them. One issue in the speculation section I have were the assumptions about the Aegis VII Marker's motivations. Yes the Red Marker's implied goals seem contrary to the nature of the other markers and the final goal of everlasting convergence. However it is a fact that the Red Marker stopped the necromorphs once Issac Clarke put it back on it's pedestal. The Hive Mind only attacked Issac and Kendra after the latter foolishly removed the marker from the pedestal. The whole point of the pedestal was to augment the Red Marker's "dead space". I have my own personal interpretation of this inconsistency in-universe but that is beside the point. The speculation section contains some flawed logic and I would rather see this wiki avoid fan theory, no matter how well done. That way we would simply keep to the source material in the main article text and keep speculation or commentary from fans to the talk page. Maphisto86 07:21, April 12, 2013 (UTC) :Agreed, if more people agree we'll move the section here. Same if no more people give their opinion. --[[User:Noemon|''Noemon]][[User talk:Noemon| *'talk'*'']] 20:41, April 12, 2013 (UTC)